‘The Five’ on Biden calling for Putin to be tried for war crimes

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This is a rush transcript from “The Five,” April 4, 2022. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS HOST: Hello, everyone. I’m Dana Perino, along with Judge Jeanine Pirro, Harold Ford, Jr., Jesse Watters, and Greg Gutfeld. It’s five o’clock in New York City, and this is THE FIVE.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: You may remember, I got criticized for calling Putin a war criminal. Well, the truth of the matter, this all happens with (Inaudible). This warrants he is a war criminal. We have to gather all the detail, so this could have a war crime trial. This guy is brutal and what’s happening in Bucha is outrageous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JEANINE PIRRO, FOX NEWS CO-HOST: What are you going to do?

PERINO: President Biden demanding a war crimes trial for Vladimir Putin after images of Russia’s atrocities in Ukraine shocked the conscience of the world. Viewer warning, these are extremely disturbing pictures. Civilians found tortured and massacred by Russian troops in the city of Bucha, their hands bound behind their backs and discarded in the streets after Russians withdrew from that city and other suburbs around Kyiv.

Ukrainian officials say they have found over 400 bodies in that area. President Zelenskyy calling the massacre a genocide, pleading for more support during last night’s Grammy Awards.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE: Our musicians wear body armor instead of tuxedos. They sing to the wounded in hospitals. tell the truth about the war on your social networks, on TV. Support us in any way you can, any but not (Inaudible).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Russia is not taking responsibility for the vicious attacks, saying the images are fake.

Harold Ford, J., it’s good to have you back with us. Some thoughts on, reflections on that and perhaps also on the financial angle in regards to the sanctions.

HAROLD FORD, JR., FOX NEWS CO-HOST: So first off, good to be back at the table. I’m pleased to see the president say what he’s saying, he is a war criminal. We bantered around at this table for weeks now on this matter and we’ve all agreed, all agreed from the very beginning.

Two, I think it’s now time to think about doing more. And doing more comes with risk. We know the escalation challenges or escalation caution and what that could do in terms of triggering perhaps a use of a light nuclear weapon or even a larger nuclear weapon.

But the declaration of him as war criminal I think escalates what we can do and how we can do it. I think some criticism of the president in the White House will continue and I think the criticism, if people are honest about it, should focus more constructively on – are we prepared for the consequences if we do something?

And meaning, if we send airplanes, I doubt we will enforce a no-fly zone. But if we send airplanes and more technology and more weaponry, are we as a nation prepared for what could come from that, be it military action from the Russians?

You talk about the economics, I look at the economics more so from the standpoint, if they turn off the spigot or they do not — they force people to pay for natural gas in rubles, this will impact NATO. So, we have to be prepared not only as a nation but even our NATO allies in what may happen.

But let me be clear, I think we should do more. Those vic — those images there suggest to me in the strongest of ways that Putin, if he is unhinged, if he is nuts, we can debate that. I think he is. One thing is clear. He is not going to stop, and we have to be willing to do something more to counter him.

PERINO: Jesse, listen to Jake Sullivan, he is the president’s national security adviser, earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE SULLIVAN, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Based on what we have seen so far, we have seen atrocities, we have seen war crimes, we have not seen a level of systematic deprivation of life of the Ukrainian people to rise to the level of genocide, but again, that’s something we will continue to monitor. There is not a mechanical formula for this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: So, monitoring genocide is an escalation.

JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: Yes, I see what he said, though. He is splitting hairs.

PERINO: Yes.

FORD; Right.

WATTERS: Because this is a legal situation if it’s a war crime situation, and we’ve only had what, recently too, you had Rwanda, you had a tribunal and then in Yugoslavia, the international criminal tribunal. Those were internationally sanctioned. Now we don’t do business with the International Criminal Court.

Russia doesn’t do business with them either and Russia would veto since it’s on the security council, any sort of international tribunal to hold themselves accountable, so I don’t know exactly where that goes, plus it’s kind of hard to extradite Putin from Moscow, maybe you could nab a general in the east in the Donbas, who knows. It’s very difficult.

I’m glad we showed the graphic photos of the dead bodies, because when the country and the world see that, it makes people fully understand the truth and it makes people take action.

And if we had only shown maybe drug overdoses in the American inter-cities, gun violence, actual dead bodies in the inner cities, maybe that would galvanize the American people to do something about violence in this country, just a thought I had.

It does look like though we are escalating with tanks. So, tanks are not a defensive weapon. And we are intermediaries in moving tanks from the European countries Soviet made into Ukraine, that tells me this. That tells me the west thinks that Russia could lose this thing and that the Ukrainians aren’t going to be fighting an insurgency, they might actually fight and possibly win a conventional war. So that’s pretty big. I think jets are next, I think we are this close to jets if the Russians keep getting pushed back.

FORD: You mean a no-fly zone or jet —

WATTERS: No, not a no-fly zone but actual jet transfers, we are inching and inching closer and I hope everybody understands the risk there.

PERINO: Judge Jeanine, do you — what do you — do you look at this, one, on the legal front which what he was talking about in terms of the tribunal and the question of is it genocide, then there are consequences. But also, I know that you are very moved after seeing all of that.

PIRRO: Well, I think we all are. I think anyone who has seen people with their hands tied behind their back and a bullet to the back of their head knows this is execution.

I don’t think the war tribunal is sufficient for this man. And let me make one thing clear. Putin is the same guy he’s been for the last 20 years. He didn’t just change. He didn’t just start committing war crimes. But this is a guy who went into Crimea and Georgia and Syria and committed the same kinds of crimes. It’s just now that we are seeing it 24/7, seven days a week, we’re seeing the pain, we’re hearing it, we’re a part of it.

And for him to say, you know, I’m not sure this is genocide, it depends on the level. Let me read you what the definition of genocide is from the war crime tribunal. It’s characterized by specific intent to destroy a whole or part a national ethnic racial or religious group by killing its members or other means causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group.

Now, I mean, there isn’t a number. There isn’t a particular equation that you can use. But I can tell you this, after the war in Bosnia, I was contacted by the State Department, by the Department of Defense to interview along with prosecutors from my office, victims so that we could prepare their file to be included in the war — war crime tribunal in The Hague.

I spent weeks with my stay of interviewing victims of the most horrific crimes you could imagine. These people were isolated, the victims were horrified, they were ashamed, we used translators, the stories that we heard are horrible. This kind of thing is not new to the world, it’s happened before.

This guy has to be stopped. I don’t like the idea of nicety of war crime tribunal, it’s about time that this was taken more seriously that the United States get involved not to the point of pushing him because of his nuclear weapons.

But let’s make one thing clear. Putin has had nuclear weapons for a long time, he hasn’t used them before and now all of a sudden, because Biden, we’re afraid of them. We weren’t afraid when we went into Syria, and we got rid of those chemical weapons when Russia was involved. But that was a different president.

PERINO: Another thing that’s different, Greg, is the whole, that this is like the first war that you see that is wired. Elon Musk has the satellites there that are helping the internet links stay up. You have hackers that are actually participating all around the world trying to hack into Russia’s systems. So, it is very different situation, as you see the images come through but there’s also this weird participation on the other side.

GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS CO-HOST: Yes, I mean, there is a battle over turf but there’s a battle over ideas. And obviously, I mean, you cannot but be grossed out and sickened by those images, but you shouldn’t be surprised. I mean, it’s amazing how evil humans can be in war. I mean, think about the stuff that no one films, stuff you don’t see. That stuff we saw. You didn’t see what happened before.

So, I don’t think we don’t have to wonder or dwell too much on the atrocities that happened because they are going to happen every day, and we’re going to be sitting here, we’re going to be looking at that and we’re going to have ourselves, ask how does that impact our behavior here? Right?

We talked about this in the beginning. There is a three-step process, you decide who wants it more and then steal yourself for the horrific details to come and then you decide your involvement should there be any. I think where we are is at this table, and elsewhere, I think we know what we want, but it’s not what we decided. Right?

We want Ukraine to win, we definitely, but haven’t decided to help them win.

PERINO: Help them do it.

GUTFELD: So, the thing is, that this means as Jake Sullivan said, a protracted. This is a protracted thing because what we want and what we decide, there is a huge gulf.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: And we have to decide what is it we want?

FORD: Right.

GUTFELD: Do we want to go there or do we want to stay here? Because I’ve said this before, I don’t know who is winning or who is losing. I wish I — I wish I knew. All — in one minute I hear the most optimistic Ukrainian outcome. The Russians were on the run. And then followed by, no, that’s the calm before the Grozny storm.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: This is when they go back and they come back and they flattened. So, the weird thing about it is it could look like the first one but be the second one, and that what’s scares me most about it. And I think initially why I was so hesitant about like, it is better for capitulation, is it better for negotiation? Or is it something that we can’t reconcile between what we want and what we decide. I think Putin has decided, we haven’t.

PERINO: And it’s not been clear —

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: — and helping them lose more slowly is not help.

GUTFELD: Yes, that’s the — that’s the conflict that goes on. But as you said at the beginning of this whole phenomenon, it’s a battle between your mind and your heart.

PERINO: Yes. All right, up next, President Biden pushing for a gun crackdown after a mass shooting in California. We’ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: A tragedy coming out of California this weekend. Police arresting one suspect after a shooting in Sacramento left six people dead and a dozen others injured. President Biden wasting no time though, to push his anti- gun agenda, saying quote, “We must do more than mourning. We must act. That is why my administration is taking historic executive action to implement my comprehensive gun crime reduction strategy.”

Biden calling on Congress to ban ghost weapons, assault weapons and high- capacity magazines, as well as require background checks for all gun sales and repel gun manufacturers immunity from liability.

But just remember this, California has already some of the toughest gun laws in the entire country. You were kind of shaking your head in disapproval while I was reading the statement.

PERINO: But not at you, but about him. So, in our first block we showed when he got off the helicopter and he come to talk about the atrocities in Bucha. And the first thing he says is, well, I was criticized, and it’s all about him. Right? So, how about standing up and having a moment of just like this will not stand. There is something. But it had to be I was criticized, but I was right.

And then the first thing he does after this is, let me pull out my statement that I have already written up with the things I have already done to say that it’s not my fault because I propose all of these things.

WATTERS: Right.

PIRRO: Yes.

PERINO: Rather, can we just have a moment of saying this is a tragedy. But Diane Feinstein put out a tweet and she said, here’s all the things that we need. Well, guess what, those things already exist. So, the laws aren’t — the laws that are on the books are not effective and the prosecutions as we’ve been talking about here for several months, we know that those aren’t happening.

And so those moms and the siblings and the aunts and the uncles that are crying today because of this unimaginable tragedy that happened to their family, everyone should look to the prosecutors, I think to make sure that they’re actually prosecuting the crimes and making sure that those criminals aren’t on the street.

WATTERS: Yes, this guy beat his wife, Greg, this guy they just arrested. And it looks like all the shell casings these were handguns.

GUTFELD: I don’t know. I was just thinking when you were talking about President Biden, you know, in the first block he just called Putin a war criminal, why didn’t he just condemn missile crime? Right? I mean, in a weird thing when it comes to the — when it comes to any kind of gun crime, he excuses the individual responsibility, the criminal. In fact, that’s — it’s not.

It’s also with knife crime now. There’s like that somehow this knife just magically shows up in some homeless maniac’s hands. We’re going to go back to that familiar back and forth that we had pre-pandemic.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: Which is you have a shooting, followed by cries for gun control in areas with the strictest gun control measures. Right? And then, you sit there and you go like, well, where have all these people been for the past two years while they ignored other kinds of crime, whether it was gang violence, whether it was smash-and-grabs, whether it was riots.

They had no interest in reducing because they already would have responded to act. What about the round of attacks on Jews and Asians?

So, Biden chooses crime that could be easily satisfied with lacey platitudes about gun makers. Because that always is the end of the effort, it’s like evil NRA and evil guns and then they just they move on. But it’s going to be, it’s pointless. Gun control is dead because of the last two years of defund rhetoric, the nationalized Ferguson effect that was caused by the riots.

You can’t simul — you can’t simultaneously return — reduce a person’s right to protect themselves while also getting rid of cops, so gun control is dead.

WATTERS: Jeanine, is it dead?

PIRRO: The problem with Biden is he would rather get involved in amending a constitutional amendment, the second amendment that’s been affirmed by the Supreme Court repeatedly than call on police or call on legislators to get rid of this in and out of the criminal justice system where there is no bail, that they’re, you know, they’re all released to commit another crime and in truth, I mean, nobody is being prosecuted.

We’ve got D.A.’s like Gascon in L.A. and you’ve got the other, Boudin in San Francisco, I believe it is. And you know, now he wants to go after the gun manufacturers. We’ll go after the car manufacturers for drunk drivers and he wants background checks. I love it. I was a prosecutor, I did this.

The background checks those are not the guns that are involved in crime. The guns that are involved in criminal behavior in my 32 years in law enforcement except for one, were guns that were sold illegally or bought on the street. These are not guns by law -abiding people who went and bought a gun, unless they are using their mother or sister’s or someone else’s gun.

So put them in jail and you won’t have to change the Constitution.

WATTERS: Let me guess, Harold, you see things a little bit differently in the table?

FORD: So, I think you’d be surprise. I think first off, we should reform the bail laws, that should be —

PIRRO: Yes.

FORD: — the president should have said that as part of what he said yesterday. Two, you have to give him credit. The president said we will increase funding for the police, he never sided with the defund the police effort. Clearly was an element in my party that espouse some of that, and I was against that and he was against it.

I do think in fairness, if you look at some of the things that he’s talking about, and you raise the right point, Judge, it’s the ghost guns, he wants to ban them. I think we ought to have a very serious robust debate about what a ghost gun is and what steps can we take to ensure that we reduce the number of those on the streets.

Look, we have not had a banned ghost gun or require on background checks for all gun sales. We’ve had ban — we’d had ban on assault weapons. We’ve not repealed the gun folk — gun manufacturers immune from liability. Maybe we should do these things. And if it doesn’t work, repeal it.

I mean, I’m honest about it. I’d be happy to say the bail reform is not working, it’s letting criminals back out on the streets and it’s causing danger — increase in danger and threats in communities all across this nation, it should be repealed.

We should do more of some of this gun stuff here, especially the ghost guns, if we did anything else, if you knew a gun that someone bought and got stolen and you knew a person who is buying tens, if not dozens, if not hundreds of guns and they were just disappearing. And all of a sudden, appearing in Chicago, in Memphis, in New York, in Denver, in New Orleans, in Atlanta and Baltimore. We ought to go that gun and say did you think those 250 guns you bought, did you think that maybe since they end up in hand of criminals and gang bangers, did you ever think that something was wrong?

So, I didn’t know. That person should be held accountable as much as anything else. And you’re right. The president should have said, we got to hold those accountable who use guns and we had to prosecute people and give people the funding to put people behind bars who are using guns.

WATTERS: Well, they are not prosecuting a lot of gun crimes on the federal level under this administration. They did a lot more under the Trump administration.

FORD: They could have done more.

WATTERS: Not a lot under this administration.

FORD: They could have done more.

WATTERS: Coming up, desperate Democrats fearing a blow out in the midterms, getting advice from, yes, Hillary Clinton, of all people.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PIRRO: Democrats growing more anxious over the latest batch of horrible polls for President Biden. A whopping 68 percent of Americans blame Biden for higher gas prices and the Democratic strategist knows the writing is on the wall. Quote, “it’s bad, you have an energy crisis that’s paralyzing and inflation is at a 40-year high and we’re heading into a recession. The problem is simple. The American people have lost confidence in him.”

And you know the Democrats are in trouble when Hillary Clinton is giving them this advice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: From my perspective, President Biden is doing a very good job. We need to get out there and do a better job of telling it. In Republican Party politics, you have an even, you know, greater disconnect. Unfortunately, most of that party has now gone to the, you know, to the extreme and are saying and doing things that have no basis in reality.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PIRRO: Such a truth-teller, Harold, what do you think of what she says about the president doing great things, but not being able to message it. What is he doing that’s great?

FORD: So, a couple of couple questions there. I think that the president is managing the Ukraine matter in a way that I think is pretty admirable. Has he made mistakes? Sure. Are there shortcomings? Sure. But I amplify a lot of what he’s done that has been right.

I think if you ask our allies around the globe, they would agree. We are not in — we’re not in a World War, we’ve not seen a nuclear weapon drop is one answer. Two. It’s one good thing. Two, a crime and the border are going to be big parts of what voters all across the country are going to consider as they think about whom to vote for in November.

And they’ll think about that even two years from now when President Biden is up for re-election. Inflation and the economy, I think some of this is going to work itself out more. Remember, inflation and the supply chain challenge, we had started back even under President Trump.

When President Trump talk about tariff and with an advantage to talking about some of those things, but it clogged up supply chains because of just the way global commerce works. And there is no doubt the spending we’ve done over the last two years because of COVID has created even more pressure on that and for that matter, so is, so is the fact that we’re now at war, or the war that’s up in Ukraine.

But Democrats shouldn’t kid ourselves. I think what was put up in that Hill comment by the Dem strategist, there is a lot of right there.

PIRRO: So, Hillary —

(CROSSTALK)

FORD: But the Republicans have a huge challenge themselves. President Trump has created some challenges in Georgia, there are candidates who are endorsed by him in Texas and California and other places that things are going to play out.

So, I hear you. But politics, I’ve been in the game a little long, I’ve been in the game a while, too, and this is not — this is not as easy as perhaps it looks on paper. I love college basketball and hope UNC surprises somebody tonight. It’s been on paper.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: There’s no game, it got cancelled.

FORD: Every —

GUTFELD: Stay on Fox for all the important news.

FORD: Every year in the (Inaudible) duke on paper should win it all, but they play the games.

PIRRO: Yes.

FORD: My friends at Kentucky unfortunately lost and first they got to play the games.

PIRRO: OK.

FORD: So, politics, let it play out here. But there is no question, Democrats —

PIRRO: Let them play out.

FORD: — we’ve got to get a course correction here if we want to be successful.

(CROSSTALK)

PIRRO: Yes, it doesn’t look good. All right. Dana, this one is for you. Hillary Clinton says the Republican Party contains extrems, is at the extreme, yet Republicans held an 8, 11 percentage point advantage in voter enthusiasm. How does she explain that?

PERINO: Yes. I heard over the weekend that Senator Mitch McConnell said I believe that he said that he had never seen that particular number that high at this point in a midterm election year.

PIRRO: Yes, ever.

PERINO: So her — the laziest thing that anybody can do in politics when your poll numbers are bad is to say, well, we just need to talk about it better. That’s actually not the issue. People are smart enough to figure that out. If your policies were good and the facts were good, the stories would write themselves.

Him getting out there — remember, at the State of the Union, he was going to go out, he was going to go see the American people, he’s going to go talk about it more.

PIRRO: Yes.

PERINO: Well, I actually think that the Republicans would love it if Hillary Clinton and AOC got together — they would actually pay for their travel for them to go all over the country saying that things that they’re saying. Tomorrow, the White House staffers are going to get to see their one true love. President Obama is going back to the White House for the anniversary of the ObamaCare signing. And that’s where their passion is, is with him. And he will be there to talk about that.

But remember, in 2014, after that Midterm that Obama used that line, I’ve got a pen and I got a phone, Biden has done that before the Midterms, like he’s already decided, like, I guess I’m a lame duck because I can’t get anything — any legislation passed. He’ll get Jackson Brown confirmed. That will happen. But other than that, there’s not a lot for them to work — to work with.

The other thing is on Title 42. This is something that Biden is going to go forward and take away, the ability to expel migrants because of COVID. Guess who’s the most upset about that besides the border states? Politically, the Democrats, are senators Mark Kelly and Maggie Hassan, because they know that that issue is going to make it very difficult for them to win their races.

PIRRO: Well, there’s no question, Jesse. By not only say I’m going to — I’m going to repeal 42, but by saying it six weeks in advance so everybody gets a rush on into the — into the United States is going to make it worse for their candidates.

WATTERS: And so, they just busted this caravan through this police barricade in Mexico. What’s Mexico doing to stop it? They’re doing nothing. Use that phone that you’re bragging about Joe and maybe call the president of Mexico and tell them to stop the caravan.

You brought up Arizona. It’s so bad there. I think the inflation is what, almost 11 percent. And then, you mentioned Nevada. That gas prices are $5.30 a gallon in Nevada. Let’s go over to Georgia, another big Senate race. Inflation also, again, near 11 percent. Gas prices in New Hampshire $4.50. He is toast. He’s not at 40 percent in these battleground states. He’s in the low 30s. In Georgia, he’s at 34 percent in Georgia. That is terrible.

I listened to Hillary and she’s calling us dumb. We’re too stupid to understand how great things are, so the Democrats just have to be a little bit better at salesmanship so the hillbillies can get it. She brags about all these great accomplishments the Democrats have, COVID. Everybody got it. Infrastructure.

I was at LaGuardia today. Joe Biden did this big announcement like eight years ago, oh, we’re going to rebuild LaGuardia Airport, it’s going to be done in like three years. It’s going to cost $2 billion. It’s now a year — what, nine and it’s already over budget by $3 billion. I waited for several minutes for my Town Car. It was horrible.

PIRRO: Oh, several minutes. Oh, the thought of it.

WATTERS: Several minutes, and the banging and the hammering.

PIRRO: Yes, Greg, how about you? When you travel, do you have to wait that long or do they know who you are?

GUTFELD: Well, I was — I was picking him up and it was hard to find a parking space.

WATTERS: Where’s your little hat.

GUTFELD: I wear — I only wear the hat when I’m entertaining. You know, I don’t think they mind. I don’t think the Democrats mind Biden’s poll numbers because they don’t like him either. And he kind of fulfilled his duty. He got elected and they want to get him out. They don’t mind that he’s polling terribly because that means they can replace them.

The only problem is the VP who’s basically a human collapsible sippy cup is going to be really hard to find a replacement for both of them at the same time. But I think they got to cut their losses. And I think this is — that’s why you don’t — I don’t think they’re that ticked off. This is a hand that you fold on and start over to use a poker term.

PIRRO: OK, ahead, what took them so long? The liberal media playing catch up on Hunter Biden’s many scandals.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

FORD JR.: The Washington Post’s editorial board admitting there needs to be a reckoning over the way the media handled the Hunter Biden laptop story now that it’s been authenticated.

The Post says it’s a danger in suppressing accurate and relevant stories in the heat of an election. White House Chief of Staff Ron Klain continues to say that Hunter did nothing wrong.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RON KLAIN, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Of course, the President’s confident that his son didn’t break the law. I wanted to be really clear. These are actions by Hunter and his brother. They’re private matters. They don’t involve the president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FORD JR: Judge, in light of Mr. Klain’s comments and the two issues here that the press waiting as long as they did to say that this thing is — that the story has some relevance and legitimacy.

PIRRO: Legs, legs.

FORD JR: And then two, the legal part of it about what Ron Klain is saying. Can you — can you address in that order?

PIRRO: I’d be more than happy to address it. First of all, why did it take — is it 17 months, 15 months for them to say, gee, it’s not Russian disinformation? What’s going to happen those 51 intelligence people who said it was Russian disinformation? They lied. They lied for political, ideological purposes, OK. And no one is taking them to task for it. That’s number one.

Number two, the only reason they’re finally admitting that there’s truth to it is because they’re past an election. I’ve said this before. 50 percent of those who voted for Joe Biden said that it had they known about what happened with Hunter and this laptop, 10 percent of them would not have voted for him. And In a race where 51 percent is the number that Joe won by, he would have lost. So, they all carry this into the — into the election win field.

Now, it is impossible at this point to review anything on that laptop without referencing Joe Biden and the family. The Biden family has for years been known as a family that’s involved with — in pay to play influence peddling, the brother, the son. Joe Biden took him on Air Force Two to China, he comes back with money.

Joe Biden says — he lied to the American people. I’m going to say it again. He lied to the American people. He says, I don’t know anything about my son’s business. I never got involved. Hogwash. You decided that you were going to meet with members. Tony Bobulinski admitted to it, members in the business. And the thousands of e-mails include Joe Biden as the big guy. And that’s all I have to say.

FORD JR: The presumption of innocence from Judge — from the judge here. Dana, what are your thoughts about —

PIRRO: No, it’s enough for an indictment. Go ahead.

FORD JR: What are your thoughts on the —

PERINO: Well, I think — you know, I worked at DOJ for just a little while. I was the spokesperson there, one of the many spokespersons there. And basically you would learn 101 ways to say no comment, which is I think is what the White House and DOJ is trying to do right now.

I don’t have any evidence to think that the White House is pressuring the DOJ in any way. Besides, prosecutors, they really don’t like that. And so, they don’t have to be told that this is super sensitive. They know that if there is one iota that it looks like Joe Biden was involved in some way or influenced in some way, that they’re — the White House’s messaging with the — I almost called him the prime minister — what the chief of staff just said, which is that he has full confidence his son didn’t do anything wrong, there’s no there there, there’s nothing there, that will all blow apart.

So, I think the DOJ is just trying to slow-walk this as long as they can. They might try to say, well, we don’t try to — we don’t do things before elections. But Hunter Biden is not on the ballot. So, I don’t think that will wash either.

FORD JR: Greg?

GUTFELD: We’re going to be covering this extensively in the “GUTFELD! SHOW” tonight which will be — which should be —

PERINO: You have new information. ‘ GUTFELD: Yes, I’ll have new information which should be released given that the basketball game has been canceled. We’ll be hearing about that more at 6:00 with Bret. We’ll be covering that live, I believe.

Well, the bottom line is there’s no disadvantage to coughing to it now. That’s the whole thing. The Washington Post raises question. You know, now why did it take — well, you know, it was going to be prudent then, but now we’ve got no, no, no, no, no, no. You knew that there were — this is like when you write a memoir. And in your memoir, you put some kind of really dirty details in there that if you would confess, 20 years ago, would have ruined you. But now that it’s you know, free of consequence, you can now kiss and tell which is why this is —

But then there’s this other thing. You said slow walk, I think it’s a fast walk. I think that they don’t — Joe is not going to be there for 2024, right? So that — and they’re going to tell him that. He’s got to go back to home. But the tradeoff is that he gets to pardon Hunter. So, that’s what — I think I’m going to fast walk it. This is my — this is what you would call a conspiracy. Shush, everybody. But it’s going to — they’re fast- walking so that they can pardon him and then — and then Joe leave. And then, you got — it’s all gone.

PIRRO: Do you think Merrick Garland — do you think Merrick Garland would indict him?

FORD JR: Wait, it’s my — it’s my segment.

WATTERS: I think Merrick Garland would indict Hunter. But I think they’re trying to contain it.

PIRRO: I’m sorry.

WATTERS: But you’re right. So, you could either have him indicted on a minor tax issue, maybe he doesn’t serve any prison time, or it’s a major tax issues slash money laundering issue. And he’s looking at a lot of prison time. And the President of the United States has to pardon his son, and then say, I’m not going to run for reelection.

Or if the guy in Delaware actually has something, he follows the evidence all the way to the big guy, and then we get into a real situation. And that’s when I think Merrick shuts it down. Right now, it’s a containment operation. They’re doing everything they can to make sure this doesn’t touch the president.

But notice what the Washington Post did. They’ve been able to authenticate all the information implicating Hunter Biden, but mysteriously, they couldn’t authenticate any of the e-mails that mentioned the big guy and 10 that they were holding for him or the joint bank accounts that Biden shared with Hunter, or the bills that Hunter was paying for his father, or the fact that Hunter made like, millions of dollars doing China consultant while Joe was VP. They couldn’t authenticate any of that. Isn’t that mysterious?

FORD JR: Look, I’m not here to answer those questions.

WATTERS: You are. You are the ombudsman for the Washington Post.

FORD JR: But I will say this. If he’s indicted, he will have to face the consequences. But there’s a presumption of innocence in our country and we wouldn’t be the country we are if we didn’t have that, including President Trump.

PIRRO: You’re right about that. “THE FASTEST” is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: Welcome back. Time for “THE FASTEST.” First up, Justin Bieber — I never heard of him — getting mocked for wearing a comically oversized suit — maybe he’s just little — to the Grammys last night. The heartthrob singer scene here practically swimming around in his ill-fitting award show ensemble. But it doesn’t in there. He was also adorned a pair of platform crocs.

All right, Harold, you might be concerned well dressed in some circumstances.

PIRRO: You are.

GUTFELD: What do you make of the oversized — what if he’s just a tiny little man swimming in a giant jacket? We just didn’t know that.

FORD JR: First of all, his show last night, his performance was outstanding.

GUTFELD: Yes. You know him personally?

FORD JR: I met him. I don’t know him. I’m a fan.

GUTFELD: Of course, you met him.

PIRRO: Of course, you met him.

GUTFELD: That’s creepy if you’re a fan.

PERINO: I’m sure Geraldo knows him.

FORD JR: I think — I think he’s — I think him — I think the guy — those guys Silk Sonic, my man Bruno Mars, they were outstanding.

PERINO: You needed depth on his outfit.

GUTFELD: Stick to the topic.

FORD JR: And my man Chris Stapleton was outstanding last night if you didn’t see thee —

GUTFELD: I think somebody should slap him for what he’s wearing.

WATTERS: Greg.

GUTFELD: Yes, I said it. I said it. I advocated violence.

PIRRO: Will Smith, please.

FORD JR: We nominate — we nominate you.

PIRRO: Yes.

GUTFELD: Judge? By the way, Judge — ‘

PIRRO: What?

GUTFELD: Wearing Crocs, one of the most underrated shoes of all time.

PIRRO: Here’s the bottom line. I love Justin Bieber. I will not say anything negative. Move on.

FORD JR: Peaches.

PERINO: Wow.

GUTFELD: What if I walked into some weird cult, Dana?

PERINO: Remember last week we did that story and we heard about Jesse’s friend who was like, pretending to be wealthy in LA?

WATTERS: Oh, yes.

PERINO: And the cops in LA have said, if you don’t want to get robbed, don’t dress like a wealthy. And I think that Justin Bieber was taking that very seriously.

GUTFELD: Do you — you know, know that’s a good point. Do you think that maybe later he was going to get like a little person and they were going to put him inside the jacket, and then he was going to pretend he’s really tall?

WATTERS: Like you?

GUTFELD: Yes, that’s how — that’s how I get into adult theaters. There aren’t any more adults theaters.

WATTERS: You wish there were. No, I’m a believer. I don’t want to say anything negative about him. And Greg, when you know — you are an artist. And artists sometimes have to wear wacky stuff, because that’s what people expect. That’s what the fans want.

PERINO: I think it’s weird because it totally ruin his girlfriend’s outfit.

FORD JR: That’s his wife.

PERINO: Oh, wife.

GUTFELD: She’s beautiful. She’s beautiful. All right, dinner party hosts may be charging guests for the food. People take into social media complaining how they got a Venmo request from their post friend for the home-cooked meal they just enjoyed together. Do you bite — do you think this is a real trend?

PERINO: I don’t know if it’s a trend. I believe it could have happened once.

GUTFELD: Yes, that’s all it is for us.

PERINO: Right?

GUTFELD: It used to be three is a trend. Now, it’s just one, right? You need three things to happen for it to be a trend, not one, producers.

FORD JR: I thought Jesse was the only person that did this. When I went to his house, he said —

WATTERS: What?

GUTFELD: No.

WATTERS: You have never been invited to my humble abode. But, girls do this. Like, sometimes Emma goes out with her friends and there’s like 30 of them.

PERINO: No, no, no.

WATTERS: And then they all have like, appetizers and then they all Venmo each other.

PIRRO: No, no, no. This whole thing — no, a dinner party.

GUTFELD: Yes, they do Venmo all the time.

(CROSSTALK)

PIRRO: We’re talking about dinner party —

WATTERS: We don’t have dinner parties anymore. Do they?

PIRRO: No, they do.

WATTERS: No, they don’t.

PIRRO: OK, you don’t. Some people do.

GUTFELD: Oh, I do. I have one every weekend, just me.

WATTERS: My parents —

PIRRO: I do. I have dinner parties. I give my guests gifts. I don’t ask them for money. You’re talking about girls going out to dinner together. Of course, they’re going to Venmo, OK. This is the epitome of classlessness.

GUTFELD: What do you think, Harold?

FORD JR: I think it’s crazy. I mean —

PIRRO: Thank you, Harold.

FORD JR: Yes, I agree with you.

WATTERS: That’s enough.

FORD JR: I mean, I’m going to go put on a big suit now.

GUTFELD: “ONE MORE THING” is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: You guys missed a commercial break for the ages. All right, it’s time now for “ONE MORE THING.” Harold.

FORD JR: Today is a remembrance in our country, the 54th year as we honor the passing and the killing of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. whose life was cut away short. He was killed in my hometown of Memphis, Tennessee. He was there for sanitation workers strike, the Poor People’s Campaign which animated the end of his life and end of his political career, and end of his civil rights career. God bless him. God bless our nation. And God bless my home city.

PERINO: Indeed. Thank you for that. I want to tell you about over the weekend, I was at the little point bookshop in Point Pleasant Beach, New Jersey and i had a book signing for the Everything Will Be Okay paperback. And you guys, the line was for five hours.

WATTERS: No, way.

PIRRO: Good for you.

PERINO: And I just want to thank all of the fans. But I want to — I want to do this — not just talk about me but they — these folks love THE FIVE so much. Each of you got multiple shoutouts round and round it went. Judge, they love having you here. Harold, you’ve got lots of mentions. Jesse, everybody’s happy for you with your show. Greg, your show as well. And they also, of course, they asked me, is Greg really that funny in person? And is Jesse nice. And is Harold really that nice?

Anyway, you’re all very nice to come out and visit and see me in person. We really appreciate it. But we really appreciate you watching the show as well. Judge.

FORD JR: Hear, hear.

PIRRO: OK, you know, you’ve heard the term work, life, balance. Well, last week, a meteorologist called his family on air to warn them of an incoming tornado. I think we have the sound.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have everybody?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, man, I want you to get down in the — in the basement. We got a tornado warning. So, I want to make sure you and Kelly get downstairs as soon as you can.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PIRRO: All right, after finishing the call — after finishing the call, he seamlessly returned to the broadcast. He said that he had to call them immediately because they were probably too busy gaming and not paying attention to anything else. So, cheers to you, Doug. You’re a true professional and obviously a great dad.

PERINO: Obviously, he’s a great dad. Jesse.

WATTERS: Happy birthday to my father in law, Big Greg, Emma’s pop. There he is right there. Greg DiGiovine. There he is with his two grandchildren, two grandsons Jesse Jr. and little Greg. And I’m not going to say how old you are but we all love you very much.

FORD JR: Happy birthday.

WATTERS: Happy birthday. This weekend, I was down in Coral Gables speaking at FreedomWorks’ Restore Liberty event. I spoke and then Guy Benson did a little Q&A with me and he is funny. He is almost as funny as you, Greg. You better watch out.

Tonight, we have Sarah Palin exclusively after her big announcement she’s going to be running for Congress. So, watch Jesse Watters primetime at 7:00 Eastern.

PERINO: She’s going to win that seat.

WATTERS: She better.

PERINO: All right, Greg.

GUTFELD: All right, tonight, I got a show. You’re going to watch it. Let’s do this. Greg, Security Guard News. You know, when you got somebody on your private property, you got to know what to do. And I have to give credit to this security guard in handling this particular predator. You can see to the left the security guard following the intruder off the golf course until it was clear. And that’s how you do it.

WATTERS: That’s what they should have done with Will Smith.

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly.

WATTERS: Squirm him right out.

GUTFELD: Yes. You got to keep a safe distance.

PERINO: He just stand there.

GUTFELD: Keep his cool and, you know, and then everybody say — he didn’t have to use a weapon at all, just kind of stood there.

PIRRO: But he’s headed towards the house.

GUTFELD: Yes, after that, it got very, very ugly. It got very bloody.

PERINO: So, that’s why we have to cut the video now. All right, that’s it for us. “SPECIAL REPORT” is up next. Hi, Bret!

END

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